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 Post subject: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 06 May 2015, 14:40 
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During the off season I try and contiplate my past season and see what I can do better, and learn from mistakes. I also think about how much I love trapping and try to come up with ways to further our pursuits. The one concept I always seem to come back to is being a member of my states trappers association. My family life right now limits my time to donate towards mentoring or teaching trappers Ed. I am sure I am not alone with time constraints. But for $20 a year, I am helping myself and the future of trapping by having a voice in trapping related matters. Here in ny we have a full time lobbyist paid for by our association. Believe he comes up big for us when the liberal politicians of ny city try to take away our passion.

I also get a great magazine for that fee. What are your thoughts on how to contribute to our trapping world. I know our neighbors in Canada have extremely strong voice with their government due to their trapping associations. I think the U.S. Would benefit greatly I'd every trapper were a member.

Just ask the trappers of Massachusetts, Colorado and New Mexico how they feel about their right to trap?

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 11 May 2015, 09:44 
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Location: Montana
I am not a member of the trapping association here. I would be, but IMO they are the biggest threat to trapping in the state. And I don't support anti trapping groups lol. A little oxymoronic LOL I do a trapping demo for a big scout rendezvous every year. Also write quite a few letters to the paper at times. Help most people that are starting into trapping. Not all of them as I have met a few who obviously have no regard for law or ethics.

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 11 May 2015, 10:45 
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Curious as to why you feel that our states association is a threat?

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 22:23 
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They keep helping to set up "trap free zones" and trying to make peace with the antis. They seem to think that if we give them some of what they want, they will leave us alone. That is the biggest thing right there.

They don't do anything as far as educating the public or PR. Their method of fighting ballot initiatives (there has been two in the last few years) is to waste a bunch of money on out of state consultants who tell them to wait for it to get on the ballot.
Basically they just waste money and do as little as possible. Hoping the anti's will just give up. And in the recent years it has been run by a clique. Which I cannot stand.

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 22:27 
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http://www.bitterrootstar.com/2012/12/0 ... -trapping/

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 05:39 
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Joined: 02 May 2013, 08:05
Posts: 81
Location: SW Mo
I am an on again off again state member, right now a non member; contemplating if it's worth it. I won't quite go as far woodstalker in that it is the worst enemy trapping has, but they sure don't help much at all, at all.
MTA represents maybe 20% of the states trappers by membership of whom about 10% go to any meetings or events and of 7000 licensed trappers, iirc, 7 are officers and 9 are District Directors; probably less than a hundred have ever voted on any issue.
So all the policy, goals and programs are in the hands of very few. Most whom have been position for 2-3 decades. And since they are unpaid volunteers and have lives, it is so much easier to maintain the status quo. Who wants to spend their time tilting windmills?
Consequently the spring business meeting and fall convention are what gets attention, not much left over for other programs.
And being set up as non-profit (social club is how most TAs are listed) they are very , very limited in what they can do politically. Which might be a good thing given that they really only represent 1%+- of the states trappers.
Pretty typical of most state TAs as far as I can tell. Most trappers don't join, most members don't participate and only a very few will work for free.
The dues you pay probably don't pay the cost of operations without banquets, raffles, convention and so forth to raise additional monies
And they support the national groups which brings up old scandals and grudges leading to infighting. I'll not say more on that.
Trappers in every state are the greatest threat to trapping.
You want to help in your state set aside $50/week to go to functions and put in 7=days a year working at those functions or trapping clinics.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 06:04 
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Joined: 02 May 2013, 08:05
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Location: SW Mo
Anti Activity by TA
We had a law for many years that trappers could only keep fur for ten days after close of season, which pretty much means you are forced to sell local buyer.

For 10-15 years trappers tried to get this changed and unknown to us the officers opposed it at the state meetings. Of course the Department followed their recommendations. Until a single individual set up and ran an internet campaign with petition and gather so much support that the commission now allows us to keep fur year round. (Some of the officers were fur buyers)

5-6 years ago the fur buyers approached the Commission to reduce trapping season from Feb.15 to Jan. 31. thus giving them more time to get their furs finished and to the auctions. MTA supported that and our season is still shortened. And the silly false reasons they gave, my! (did I mention that some officers were fur buyers?)

Trap tags? guess who (serve absolutely no purpose as I can by tags with your name on them or vise-versa )

This year, with new Pres. and VP, MTA finely petitioned for partially exposed body grips in water and we got it. (was a done deal before they asked)


Who said "we have met the enemy and it is us". "HEUS VP said trappers are dumb"


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 14:05 
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I understand the frustrations involved with the type of organizations we are talking about. Believe me, fighting the status quo is not an easy task. Unfortunately, the only recourse we have is to become more involved. The infighting between trappers is always gonna be there. That being said, when the antis come, and they always will, the associations are our only hope. We need to unite to be successful. I was hoping one of our Canadian members would speak about their experiences and how they are so successful in their agendas.

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 28 May 2015, 10:03 
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Joined: 02 May 2013, 08:05
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Location: SW Mo
imo, if the antis wanted to stop trapping it would have happened long ago, the antis want the cash cow of continued strife. The two sides keep bringing it up so as to gather more monies and the money gets used up paying for more deals to bring in more money. They feed off each other.

I should never have replied to this thread, because reading what I wrote before has woken my memories of many other incidents. Saddens and angers me.

Good luck with your TA and I hope they never ask for restrictions on trapping or shorter seasons the way ours has. Woodswalker is right, now that I think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:58 
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:07
Posts: 3109
Location: northwestern Ontario
I have been following this but was reluctant to respond for fear of comments regarding Canadian trappers and think they are so good. Seen it on other forums. I can tell you we all our in the same boat. Ontario is the largest fur producer in Canada, thus two auction houses in our province ( Nafa-FHA ). Even so with the size of Ontario which is bigger then Texas it was hard for many trappers to voice their concerns through out the province and be heard. We all needed representation coming from one focal point to government. Thus the Ontario Fur Managers Federation was established many years ago.

Our Provincial government supplements OFMF and their operations and in turn they look after handling of all trappers licences, trap line transfers, trapping related issues or any new laws that government might want to put in. Once a member and you have to be a member to renew your trapping licence through OFMF you are entitled to a 5 million dollar liability insurance for the price of $10.00. As well you get a $4000.00 accidental death or dismemberment policy for free. For many of us up here doing nuisance animal control insurance is required and OFMF gives that to us.

All of Ontario is divided into zones, we have the South, East Central, North and Northwest. Each zone has one director, in total there are 12 zone directors. We have 4 zone vice presidents and then the President. To make things more efficient when dealing with so many trappers concerns councils were formed in many towns through out Ontario. So now we have trappers that can voice their concerns on any issues at their council meetings that will be passed on to the zone director then to the vise president and president. At that time meetings are held which happens several times a year and thus carried onto Queens Park to the Provincial Government. No changes are made to any trapping laws in Ontario until the Federation has had its say. Since the Ontario Government Realised that the OFMF is for trapping and is the voice of the trapper they listen.

There has been many issues over the years but we have overcome.

I think as our brothers to the South you have to get away from one governing body to cover all of the States NTA. I would think that each State like our Provinces should govern only. We all as Provinces or States have different problems. Time that all you trappers in each State start forming trapping councils in all your towns that people trap and form some connection to your State Government as a whole body.

By giving up, you dry up and blow away. Start new and create something new for your State only, the rest will follow. For those of you wishing to move on type Ontario Fur managers Federation and take a look. Not perfect but it does the trick

There is so much more I could say about what we as trappers have done up here. Send me a pm and I will gladly fill you in some more.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 07:35 
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Thanks for the reply wolf. Each state does have a trappers association. Here in NY, each County has a trappers association under the umbrella of the NY association. It sounds similar to what you are speaking of. The issue is membership and participation. Only 10% of licensed trappers are members, and I think the percentage is similar across other states as well, as sad as that sounds.

The idea of requiring membership in trappers association to purchase trapping license would never fly in this country. People are looking for less government intrusion into our lives, not more. I don't know what the answer is, but without a more unified front, our rights as trappers will be slowly eroded one law at a time until we are all like Colorado.

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 09:19 
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:07
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Location: northwestern Ontario
What does it cost for a trappers licence in NY and what does it cost to join your Association. And after joining what do you as trappers get.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 17:50 
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wolf1199 wrote:
What does it cost for a trappers licence in NY and what does it cost to join your Association. And after joining what do you as trappers get.

The cost for a resident of NY to purchase a license is $20. The cost to join the New YOrk Trappers Association is also $20. The cost to join a county association is between $15 and $20. With a membership to NYTA, we receive a bimonthly enrollment to the Trappers Post magazine, out of Maine (a wonderful publication IMO). We also pay the salary for a full time lobbyist in our state capital in Albany, a membership card and a decal lol. I think the benefit of a full time lobbyist is worth it's weight in gold in this corrupt state.

The membership in the county level associations get you monthly meetings with demos, food, beverage, a yearly bbq. More of a fraternal organization. It also has a president who attends the state meetings and voices any concerns regarding their county and its membership.

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 30 May 2015, 18:49 
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:07
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Location: northwestern Ontario
Thanks, we are close in money payout as well. $39.55 for a trappers licence and every additional helpers licence is $16.95. Ontario Fur Managers Federation membership fee is $11.30 and our council fee is $10.00 a year.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 31 May 2015, 02:25 
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Trapper
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Joined: 02 May 2013, 08:05
Posts: 81
Location: SW Mo
In Mo. trapping permit is $10 and the MTA membership is $20, no real benefit to joining the club as most of the functions are hundreds of miles away from me and most of the functions are also open to non members.
Trapping permit is no limit on all fur bearers except weasel and spotted skunk, both of which have no season. Only trap restriction is no bodygrip bigger than 5"x 5" on land and no teeth on foot holds.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 31 May 2015, 11:36 
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I was under the assumption that the State Trappers Associations were simply branches of the National Trappers Association. Is this not true? Are State Associations connected to the National one, in any way?

I dont know much about them oranizations, because I've had such bad experiences with a ranking member in our State Association (as well as anyone I find connected to him as a trapping friend or student of his). I think if I were to tell of the things he/they pull out on the line, you all would agree with my heightened distain for their actions. As a district leader he (and his associates) should set the example and be above reproach in his trapping actions but clearly he is not, nor does it seem change will ever come from him or the State Trapping Associations loyalty to him. I had informed them on numerous occasions of his mis-goings and they simply defend him. I/we also have turned him and his friends in to our State officials and they too seem to never run out of leaniencies. It has taken DAYS for them to finally pull illegally operated sets of theirs and I never read about any citations being issued....which is available info. The officers know him/them, they have told us so. I just cannot become a member of such an organization that utilizes those kinds of practices of supporting poachers as ranking officials. I guess there isnt a whole heck of a lot I can do about the State officers, but I CAN stay clear of the Trappers Association, especially when one of the largest districts in the State is being ran by a total idiot that seems to be above the law and without consciencness of ethics. No telling if the other districts are this way or not as I simply dont know anything about them..

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 31 May 2015, 15:21 
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Amak wrote:
I was under the assumption that the State Trappers Associations were simply branches of the National Trappers Association. Is this not true? Are State Associations connected to the National one, in any way?

I dont know much about them oranizations, because I've had such bad experiences with a ranking member in our State Association (as well as anyone I find connected to him as a trapping friend or student of his). I think if I were to tell of the things he/they pull out on the line, you all would agree with my heightened distain for their actions. As a district leader he (and his associates) should set the example and be above reproach in his trapping actions but clearly he is not, nor does it seem change will ever come from him or the State Trapping Associations loyalty to him. I had informed them on numerous occasions of his mis-goings and they simply defend him. I/we also have turned him and his friends in to our State officials and they too seem to never run out of leaniencies. It has taken DAYS for them to finally pull illegally operated sets of theirs and I never read about any citations being issued....which is available info. The officers know him/them, they have told us so. I just cannot become a member of such an organization that utilizes those kinds of practices of supporting poachers as ranking officials. I guess there isnt a whole heck of a lot I can do about the State officers, but I CAN stay clear of the Trappers Association, especially when one of the largest districts in the State is being ran by a total idiot that seems to be above the law and without consciencness of ethics. No telling if the other districts are this way or not as I simply dont know anything about them..

The state associations are a completely separate entity onto themselves.

So sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences with the associations as well. This seems to be a reoccurring theme amongst us. I wonder if there is a common thread?

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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 10:08 
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Joined: 02 May 2013, 08:05
Posts: 81
Location: SW Mo
State clubs are all independent of the of the national club, but all that I know of are affiliated with NTA and /or FTA; big reason for me to be wary of supporting the state club is the support they give NTA and won't admit to NTA's shortcomings. (any organization should follow it's bylaws)

One thing that bugs me is that people think that these social clubs can exert political influence, they can't legally as non-profits. Yet dissidents run them down because they don't and some try to tell us that they are the hope of the future; social clubs are just that, social clubs. Their biggest function is the annual party/rondy.


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 Post subject: Re: Help trapping?
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 09:18 
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Posts: 1968
Location: Montana
The reason I view our association as a threat is because they either make concessions or just ignore everything the anti's do. Also recently they have been attempting to sensor trappers who actively try to do anything. For example last year the president of the association ( My snake alarm goes off when he is within a mile) wrote my trapping partner a letter telling him to quit writing letters to the editor, and to stop calling state representatives. Because we don't want to bother the politicians.

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