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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 12:10 
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BEAVER
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
165076 XL I-II DK SKY 1
BEAVER Total 1

ERMINE
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
157073 III 4
ERMINE Total 4

WILD MINK
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
168951 XL-LGE I-II DBR-DK T-S 1
169169 MED-SML III 1
WILD MINK Total 2

MUSKRAT
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
168011 XL I-II NTH,GD,FAL2
168013 XL I-II NTH,GD,FAL1
168043 XL SLT NTH,GD,FAL1
168053 XL SDG NTH,AVG,FA3
168058 LGE *I NTH,AVG,WT1
168063 LGE I-II NTH,GD,FAL1
168064 LGE I-II NTH,GD,FAL3
168071 LGE I-II NTH,AVG,FA1
168093 MED I-II NTH,AVG,FA3
168096 MED SDG NTH,AVG,FA2
168208 SML I-II AVG,FAL 1
168214 SML SDG AVG,SPR 1
168218 XSM I-II AVG,FAL 1
168262 IV NTH, 1
MUSKRAT Total 22

RACCOON
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
169421 XL II 4-5 NTH, 1
169433 LGE SDA 4-5 1
169437 LGE SDB 4-5 1
169930 4XL-3XL SDB 4-5 AVG 1
170943 LM DGD-III 2-5 1
RACCOON Total 5

SQUIRREL
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
157014 III E/W, 8
157015 IV E/W, 1
SQUIRREL Total 9

CASTOREUM
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
542735 OZ ORD 4
CASTOREUM Total Qty 4


The section 3 coon was exactly a terrible coon, it was my first one I fleshed and it turned out I left on too much fat, because I thought it was the leather... The section 3 mink was a road kill, and it was starting to slip a little around the flanks. The section 3 squirrels kind of surprised me. I had some that got attacked by bugs, and almost ruined them, but I had two that were near perfect, no holes, and the tails still on. Same with the weasels, I had one that I thought was done right, tail still on and everything. I had one weasel that was eaten by bugs, one that was roadkill, and one that I pulled off the tail :( The section 4 rat was because when I come to the front legs, I just pull them through, and when I pulled it through, it was a small rat, so the leather was thin, and it tore a big hole in it.

So, I have some questions about grading terminology now :shock: shocker isn't it? lol

What is the difference between SDA SDB AND SDG?
Is SLT slight tear?
And lastly, what does sky mean on my beaver? Silky?

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 12:38 
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longhairboy wrote:
BEAVER
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
165076 XL I-II DK SKY 1
BEAVER Total 1

ERMINE
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
157073 III 4
ERMINE Total 4

WILD MINK
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
168951 XL-LGE I-II DBR-DK T-S 1
169169 MED-SML III 1
WILD MINK Total 2

MUSKRAT
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
168011 XL I-II NTH,GD,FAL2
168013 XL I-II NTH,GD,FAL1
168043 XL SLT NTH,GD,FAL1
168053 XL SDG NTH,AVG,FA3
168058 LGE *I NTH,AVG,WT1
168063 LGE I-II NTH,GD,FAL1
168064 LGE I-II NTH,GD,FAL3
168071 LGE I-II NTH,AVG,FA1
168093 MED I-II NTH,AVG,FA3
168096 MED SDG NTH,AVG,FA2
168208 SML I-II AVG,FAL 1
168214 SML SDG AVG,SPR 1
168218 XSM I-II AVG,FAL 1
168262 IV NTH, 1
MUSKRAT Total 22

RACCOON
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
169421 XL II 4-5 NTH, 1
169433 LGE SDA 4-5 1
169437 LGE SDB 4-5 1
169930 4XL-3XL SDB 4-5 AVG 1
170943 LM DGD-III 2-5 1
RACCOON Total 5

SQUIRREL
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
157014 III E/W, 8
157015 IV E/W, 1
SQUIRREL Total 9

CASTOREUM
LOT
SIZE |GRADE |COLOR |CLR|
QTY
542735 OZ ORD 4
CASTOREUM Total Qty 4


The section 3 coon was exactly a terrible coon, it was my first one I fleshed and it turned out I left on too much fat, because I thought it was the leather... The section 3 mink was a road kill, and it was starting to slip a little around the flanks. The section 3 squirrels kind of surprised me. I had some that got attacked by bugs, and almost ruined them, but I had two that were near perfect, no holes, and the tails still on. Same with the weasels, I had one that I thought was done right, tail still on and everything. I had one weasel that was eaten by bugs, one that was roadkill, and one that I pulled off the tail :( The section 4 rat was because when I come to the front legs, I just pull them through, and when I pulled it through, it was a small rat, so the leather was thin, and it tore a big hole in it.

So, I have some questions about grading terminology now :shock: shocker isn't it? lol

What is the difference between SDA SDB AND SDG?
Is SLT slight tear?
And lastly, what does sky mean on my beaver? Silky?

Sda is a select or I grade with slight damage
Sdb is a I or II with slight damage
Sdg is also select or I with slight damage
Slt is a I with very slight damage
Sky is silky.

Sda and sdb are relatively new terms only used on coyote, red fox, sable, coon and beaver.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 13:20 
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Sorry to hear you're bummed WCS :( I haven't noticed NAFA cutting down my sizes although a real test will be with my April shipment for the summer auction (probably 20 coon going there). I only got 4 coon caught & finished in the month between the Dec. and Jan. pick ups and those went 3 3-4XL and 1 XL. The smaller one got graded higher than the other three. Most of my coon colors are down the range (I don't think I've ever seen one of mine go 1-2) and I've had ranges in auctions past of 2-5 (well, that just about covers everything!!).

I'm more curious how things will go. For coon, will it be better than Jan. (NAFA's spin then was that this larger "main" auction should be better) or will it be a repeat of Jan. or will the new benchmark be set ($10-12 averages even for more desired regions)?? I guess we'll find out soon enough...

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 15:25 
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Like Nonpc, the few coons I sent I think are on par for what I expected on size, and actually was a bit surprised I got as many 2-3 colors, which again i only sent a few...but im ok with the grades and sizing on them and the other hides. The one thing i am concerned a lil bit about is only 34 of the 36 rats i sent are showing. Im hoping they pop up here sometime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 15:48 
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WCS wrote:
Swamp Rat wrote:
Seems we have a lot of questions (as usual) about the upcoming NAFA sales. My question is about their symbols, what do each of these mean:
RD
SP
PT
M.S.
NC

Rd is red tinge
Sp is select pale
Pt I have no idea what that means
Ms is milk stained
Nc is north central section


Thanks WCS, the "milk stain" still has be a bit confused.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 16:27 
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Was checking out the auction catalog for Friday. 30,000 wild mink and then just after that they have the section 3 mink sell. 120,000 of them? One has to wonder why so many section 3 mink. It's a real shame that it's 4 to 1 for a good mink.


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 16:52 
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wolf1199 wrote:
Was checking out the auction catalog for Friday. 30,000 wild mink and then just after that they have the section 3 mink sell. 120,000 of them? One has to wonder why so many section 3 mink. It's a real shame that it's 4 to 1 for a good mink.

Wild mink is in real trouble. With so many cheap ranch mink breeders being sent to market the non uniform wild stuff can't compete. $7, $8 $9 for most and $15 for the good wild stuff is unconscionable. I feel bad I trapped them this year. Grades on those stink also.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 18:13 
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WCS wrote:
wolf1199 wrote:
Was checking out the auction catalog for Friday. 30,000 wild mink and then just after that they have the section 3 mink sell. 120,000 of them? One has to wonder why so many section 3 mink. It's a real shame that it's 4 to 1 for a good mink.

Wild mink is in real trouble. With so many cheap ranch mink breeders being sent to market the non uniform wild stuff can't compete. $7, $8 $9 for most and $15 for the good wild stuff is unconscionable. I feel bad I trapped them this year. Grades on those stink also.


Ranch mink has effected the whole fur industry we know. But to have 120.000 section 3, something is not right. And that's not because of Ranch fur We as trappers cannot help when another critter chews on our caught dead mink, but there are many other scenarios that come into play when trapping. I can think of many that contribute to section 3 mink. In todays age one has to use common sense and have patients . I will say it again early caught fur yields poor results. Also poor pelt preparation. I know many do not have the option to wait for better fur for fear of losing out on someone else trapping the same grounds. Sad as it may seem to many here in Canada and US start way to early. I used to be a numbers guy before but have realized better to catch less fur at a more high price then catch many at give away prices.


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 20:58 
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Oh I thought those were section 3 ranched mink

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Squirrel-6
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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 21:16 
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Not trying to pick a fight or create any drama, but I can't see where NAFA grading harder in bad markets would be a benefit to them. They make money off the commission of what fur is sold, the higher the prices the more money they make. Why would they want to grade harder and make less money. It just doesn't make business sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 22:05 
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Not trying to argue but browning is right it doesn't make good sense for a legit business to downgrade fur that profits on commission. I have my own theory but im a conspiracist at times. Too many years working for the government. Hope it all balances out in the next one for everyone. "Fur will shine again". These are good years to build your tactics and talents and acquire more ground. Dont forget the sunny day/Johnny come latelys that dont make a fortune and sell their gear!! Always a silver lining..

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 22:10 
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Quote:
 I will say it again early caught fur yields poor results. Also poor pelt preparation......... US start way to early........I used to be a numbers guy before but have realized better to catch less fur at a more high price then catch many at give away prices.



Well .......I think that sums up things quite nice. I agree whole heartedly...... :?

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2015, 23:28 
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Browning625 wrote:
Not trying to pick a fight or create any drama, but I can't see where NAFA grading harder in bad markets would be a benefit to them. They make money off the commission of what fur is sold, the higher the prices the more money they make. Why would they want to grade harder and make less money. It just doesn't make business sense to me.


I know your not trying to pick a fight and you asked a very good question. First off Nafa does not down grade fur to the point of section 3 unless that is what it is. They make their money off commission and would only cut their throats by doing so. You should have all received a letter from Nafa this year stating not to send section 3 fur as it is a hard item to sell and most times the trapper owes Nafa money when it's all said and done. Prime example was FHA sale 3 weeks ago, coon could not even sell for 1 buck and one buyer said 50 cents. Now you take that and remove commission and shipping and what do you have left? Both auction houses are now saying no to bad fur, section 3. If they can't sell it this year then they have to store it till the following year which cost money and if it sells for 2 bucks who won? Nobody

Backwoodsmansback wrote:
Not trying to argue but browning is right it doesn't make good sense for a legit business to downgrade fur that profits on commission. I have my own theory but im a conspiracist at times. Too many years working for the government. Hope it all balances out in the next one for everyone. "Fur will shine again". These are good years to build your tactics and talents and acquire more ground. Dont forget the sunny day/Johnny come latelys that dont make a fortune and sell their gear!! Always a silver lining..


There is always a silver lining eventually. What we do for ourselves and do the best we can and control what we send will only make things better for each of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 08:15 
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Browning625 wrote:
Not trying to pick a fight or create any drama, but I can't see where NAFA grading harder in bad markets would be a benefit to them. They make money off the commission of what fur is sold, the higher the prices the more money they make. Why would they want to grade harder and make less money. It just doesn't make business sense to me.

Review the catalogs from years past and tell me that the grading is consistent. The shear number of high quality pelts are not there as there used to be. Could it be that trappers are sending more low quality stuff in? I doubt it. It's a buyers market right now and NAFA makes it more appealing to move furs if the buyers feel like they are getting a good deal. The stats don't lie.

Use beaver as an example. this article has been down for quite some time now. The old timers around here can't believe how hard they grade beaver pelts compared to the "old" days. Are we as trappers sending more poor fur to auction than ever before? Can't be. The percentages of fur quality stays consistent thought the years with small deviations from weather and market conditions. So why the harder grades? Imo, it's so the auction houses can justify the lower prices and keep the buyers buying.
No one wants to see a $12 price on a nice select beaver pelt especially the trapper. So NAFA grades that beaver pelt With a grade I with some imperfections and all of a sudden the trappers is a bit more ok with the low price. Attempting to satisfy both the buyer and sellers during a down market.

Ps, no arguments Or drama just talking

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 09:34 
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WCS, the reason for the harder gradings, is because the auctions, both of them, are learning from their mistakes. Where they graded loosely in the past, it began catching up to them in complaints and unsatified buyers. Then the buyer begin looking for alternate avenues. They had no choice but to get the gradings in line or loose potential buyers. Like wolf stated, they warned everyone for the last two years this would be the case. If they are going to sell, they got to sell exactly what they say they are selling down to the fine grit. Our Asian friends are very sure to get what they paid for now days where in the past they weren't quite as keen to what should be what. As far as northern coons, honestly the color has always been wanting and lacking for true 2-3's Those ARE a rarity there in its true sense not the norm and is a well known fact. The buyers by the bunches did not think they were truely getting what they paid for and funny thing is they wernt.. So gradings and sizings are more true to reality today then they have been in the past....because they haven't much choice. Its that or lose buyers...which do you choose?

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 09:43 
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Swamp Rat wrote:
WCS wrote:
Swamp Rat wrote:
Seems we have a lot of questions (as usual) about the upcoming NAFA sales. My question is about their symbols, what do each of these mean:
RD
SP
PT
M.S.
NC

Rd is red tinge
Sp is select pale
Pt I have no idea what that means
Ms is milk stained
Nc is north central section


Thanks WCS, the "milk stain" still has be a bit confused.



Swamp...SP as pertaining most likely to bobcats, isnt select pale. It has to do with spots on the cats back and the meaning is spotted.

M.S. is milk spots. Again pertaining to bobcats and older females in particular. It can be stains, or excessive balding around her teats, or actual fur damage caused by nursing kittens around the teat.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 09:49 
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That's great and makes perfect sense to me. As long as that's the new normal and the system shows some consistanty I'm all for it. Generally speaking, the trapper should be getting the same quality pelts year in and year out, with the same average of grades. With that in mind, the grades issued by the auctions should generally be similar as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 11:55 
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Same grade average idea is largely true, but there are some things to bear in mind that will cause flexing grades and without those considerations can throw us off.

One is winter comes earlier and later depending on the year, as well as just how severe the weather will get. Animals seem to "know" ahead of time and put on heavier coats for the time of year then they do when the winter will be mild. Then they just get heavier from there. So even early pelts do vary in heaviness season to season to a certain extent of possible winter scenerios.

There is also numbers and percentage of pelts to consider. With say 20 coons a season, there is a good chance to get a false reading of normal, because by chance a person trapped a larger portion of abnormal pelts for that State or region. Now over the course of 10 years at 20 coons a year you would be getting a good idea of what is your true normal average. On the other hand if the trapper hit 100 coons that season, the norm will be devulged in only 5 seasons for the most part, but varied winter patterns are still needed to get a true sense of normal.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 13:53 
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Got my list of gradings and think I'm disappointed on the single coyote I sent in. It is #159204 3xl-xl DG2 DK-DBR 1-4 AC AVG,
I am assuming that the DG2 stands for damaged #2. I cut no holes in the pelt, one .22 short between the eyes and stretched very well. My only guess is the front legs were not cut short and I stretched them out to the side instead of down. Think that was the reason for the down grade? Should have kept it and had it tanned with the other two I caught.. Guess I will see what it sells for, if at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 14:31 
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bartydad wrote:
Got my list of gradings and think I'm disappointed on the single coyote I sent in. It is #159204 3xl-xl DG2 DK-DBR 1-4 AC AVG,
I am assuming that the DG2 stands for damaged #2. I cut no holes in the pelt, one .22 short between the eyes and stretched very well. My only guess is the front legs were not cut short and I stretched them out to the side instead of down. Think that was the reason for the down grade? Should have kept it and had it tanned with the other two I caught.. Guess I will see what it sells for, if at all.


To be honest there are a hundred different things that could have been wrong or gone wrong. Damaged goods do not have to be centered around a hole(s) cut or put in a hide. They can be for sure, but aren't limited to that. Damaged hides can also come from hair damage, with yotes typically mange, slippage, burrs still in the fur, etc. Also when you catch it means everything. An October yote isn't ever going to grade well, its just too early for them and they get downgraded hard. Please don't take it like I am saying you did these things, as I'm not, I'm just trying to give you more info.

If I had my guess as to what happened I would say that the front legs got ripped in the drumming process. On many fur out hides NAFA and FHA both drum the furs to clean them up, lighten them color wise, etc, just beautification. They do several hides in the drum at one time, so they are bouncing and hitting each other. With your yotes front legs sticking out like that I greatly imagine the legs caught on something and the hide got ripped. Is this a guarantee, no, but a good possibility. Just for future reference, the auction houses say they want the front legs tucked inside the hide when dried, that way the hides don't get torn or ripped during the drumming process. They even warn of this in a couple different places. They also say to take ear cartiledge out for the same reason and to help keep possible slippage from occuring. Sorry the grade wasn't what you were hoping for, hope your next ones do better for you, good luck in the sale.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 18:23 
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Amak wrote:
Swamp Rat wrote:
WCS wrote:
Swamp Rat wrote:
Seems we have a lot of questions (as usual) about the upcoming NAFA sales. My question is about their symbols, what do each of these mean:
RD
SP
PT
M.S.
NC

Rd is red tinge
Sp is select pale
Pt I have no idea what that means
Ms is milk stained
Nc is north central section


Thanks WCS, the "milk stain" still has be a bit confused.



Swamp...SP as pertaining most likely to bobcats, isnt select pale. It has to do with spots on the cats back and the meaning is spotted.

M.S. is milk spots. Again pertaining to bobcats and older females in particular. It can be stains, or excessive balding around her teats, or actual fur damage caused by nursing kittens around the teat.


Thanks Amak, I did have one large female bobcat up there and so that is probably the issue. I would not have ever thought of "milk stain" for M.S. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 20:40 
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Always interesting to see how typically we're fairly mellow when we disagree a bit on things. I'm sure if you go over on Tman, there's probably a dozen pages already on NAFA's lottering letters (there was 23 pages about the NAFA Section III letter that came about a while back!!).

I agree with LHB and think the 120K Section III mink are the dregs of the ranch mink industry. The individual lots are mostly talking about the various non-wild colors. If NAFA sells 5 million ranch mink, a 120,000 would only be a little over 2% of the total. To me, it seems logical that there got to be some "junk" (for whatever reason) coming out of the ranch pens. Maybe its better for wild mink to offer them first before everything else???

I miss running a couple week winter mink line but I haven't been able to justify its cost for a couple of years now. My eyes got opened when my plain jane mrat 3 years ago got more than a female mink. Maybe I'll be able to do it again (maybe just a way to burn money and have fun) before I get too old and broken down. Then again, maybe not...

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 21:40 
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Do mink ranchers/fur farmers still have a controlling interest in NAFA? PC ive known fur farmers and the few i knew wouldnt send damaged goods to auctions. Most around here sell them to taxidermist if possible or destroy them because their "name" and business is linked to the fur.

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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 22:07 
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I will say I have noticed the grading to be tighter this year.... And it is interesting but there isn't anything we can do about it and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter as long as they can peddle your fur at averages you can be happy with in the current fur market....I mean from what iv seen some guys who sold local early in the year did better on a few coons then I, but that being said I haven't heard another auction or another avenue that has made out a ton better...this is just my two cents, not trying to start a war!


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 Post subject: Re: Naf lotting grades
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2015, 23:56 
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Backwoodsmansback wrote:
Do mink ranchers/fur farmers still have a controlling interest in NAFA? PC ive known fur farmers and the few i knew wouldnt send damaged goods to auctions. Most around here sell them to taxidermist if possible or destroy them because their "name" and business is linked to the fur.


Ranch farmers own 80% of Nafa, leaves little for us wild fur trappers.

Fish94 wrote:
I will say I have noticed the grading to be tighter this year.... And it is interesting but there isn't anything we can do about it and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter as long as they can peddle your fur at averages you can be happy with in the current fur market....I mean from what iv seen some guys who sold local early in the year did better on a few coons then I, but that being said I haven't heard another auction or another avenue that has made out a ton better...this is just my two cents, not trying to start a war!


When fur is not in demand grading is harsh as this year. When their is a good market for wild fur then the grades always seem to be better. Getting back to section 3 fur , same thing applies. Over the last couple years section 3 fur has lost money for Nafa. Anyway it is what it is and the sun will shine again. We all have to play it smart if we want to make a tidy profit at years end. Now time for the nest as I have to be up early for the start of the auction and some of Dave's furs.


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