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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 07:55 
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tjm wrote:
I know now though that I've done this wrong for many years. I've seen pictures on the net of what a hole is supposed to look like.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 08:31 
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tjm wrote:
I use a variation of dirt hole that rarely has problems. Picture a pocket set against a steep hillside, works well along a game trail or upper bank of log trail. Make fox step up one step from trail, to a small shelf where the trap is. Drainage is built into the shelf and the hole won't fill up with rain. Never had a fox approach from the rear. Poke two or three small holes it looks like a chipmunk house.
If no hill available there may be a ditch bank.

I know now though that I've done this wrong for many years. I've seen pictures on the net of what a hole is supposed to look like.

I'm a bank setter myself. Out here in the prairie I use the erosion slips or anything with an elevation for my dirt holes, can only be worked from one direction and a horizonal hole. Rain proof. :wink:

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 09:17 
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I trap a lot in hard wood forest and those trap demo type holes are full and covered with leaves in just hours, the bank set not only sheds water, it sheds leaves. I'm also in the Ozarks so I don't have far to go to find an incline.
But now I know it's wrong I may have to stop doing it.


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 14:12 
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your right about books on animals, if told many a new trapper to study the animals you want,watch documentrys rean everything you can learn there habbits,food, mateing season and u will be a better trapper, but there are some good vidios out there and alot of bad ones like you said . A big money making sham. I could name a few but I wont


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 19:28 
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conibearcat wrote:
your right about books on animals, if told many a new trapper to study the animals you want,watch documentrys rean everything you can learn there habbits,food, mateing season and u will be a better trapper, but there are some good vidios out there and alot of bad ones like you said . A big money making sham. I could name a few but I wont



Thank you very much conicat, its nice to know im standing beside some folks instead of alone on this. :wink:

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 19:53 
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I've used a lot of variations of the dirthole over the years. Including the bank set Richard and tjm described, the step-down, etc. I have even on occasion combined the dirthole and trail sets into one set. getting back to Wolf's question, I have tried a lot of different materials to replace dirt, or add to it. Such as buckwheat hulls, dry stump dirt, leaves, grass, etc. all can help to some degree, but nothing has worked 100 % for me. My brother used propylene glycol mixed with water in his dirtholes this year to prevent freezing and had really good success with it. Has anyone else tried this. ?

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 21:05 
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I never used propolene, but lots of trappers do with succes, me I use plain table salt an calcium cloride when I have it. but mostly salt


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 21:24 
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conibearcat wrote:
I never used propolene, but lots of trappers do with succes, me I use plain table salt an calcium cloride when I have it. but mostly salt


I have used salt before , but quit when I quit waxing my traps. Do traps need to be waxed when using CA chloride ? I've never used it but suspect it is similar to NACL in its effect on steel ?

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 21:48 
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I've used p. glycol. I never could get use to it. Sets were always wet looking, and My sets froze still with a 50/50 mix...so I figured it would be a lil cheaper and easier to switch to calcium chloride if i was going to have to run straight glycol to keep from freezing. Calcium chloride will rust the traps, but not nearly as much so as sodium chloride. I can wax, and make catches through the season in predator sets, and they will be spotty in rust...sometimes none at all. But if I let them set until July to re wax, they get rusty. So it does have some effect but its not as bad as what table salt tends to do.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 22:01 
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Amak wrote:
I've used p. glycol. I never could get use to it. Sets were always wet looking, and My sets froze still with a 50/50 mix...so I figured it would be a lil cheaper and easier to switch to calcium chloride if i was going to have to run straight glycol to keep from freezing. Calcium chloride will rust the traps, but not nearly as much so as sodium chloride. I can wax, and make catches through the season in predator sets, and they will be spotty in rust...sometimes none at all. But if I let them set until July to re wax, they get rusty. So it does have some effect but its not as bad as what table salt tends to do.


I spray my traps with rustoleum now ( got the idea from Chieftan ) . I've never used salt or ca chloride on them. Will they rust the traps or will the rustoleum protect them ?

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 23:52 
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I think the paint will protect them.. You might have to touch up on them after some catches to be certain if you wanted zero effects. With clacium chloride, i've ran bare brand new traps and used it all season. By seasons end they were only rusted to the point perfect for taking dye. That stuff dont just attack the metal relentlesly like some think it does. Its actually fairly mild. I cant say for certain, but in a trapping situation id think it would be a long while before CC would jack the paint. If you stuck it down into solid CC like into the sack of the stuff and left it for a month, then id be worried. But the little amount for trapping dont do much to the trap really. Salt is worse on them for sure.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 01:02 
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Having worked construction for almost fifty years, I have seen so many paint failures that I consider paint to be cosmetic, at best. Rust can grow under the paint and I won't notice it.
Long ago every trapper in this area bedded traps in wood ashes, like salt and calcium chloride, corrosive stuff. Wax is heavy oil and applied hot penetrates the pores of steel providing about the best protection possible. I used to wax all my carpenter tools.
Treatment with tannin or phosphoric acid reacts chemically with rust converting it to an almost protective coating. When topped off with hot wax, I feel I have done about all I can to prevent corrosion.
Like Amak, I don't like the wet look of glycol, but more important to me is the sweet odor it has. I've never observed a critters reaction to that smell, but it bothers me.
Peat is the only internet recommended antifreeze that I will use. More often than not I use pine straw or cedar duff. But, we rarely get the hard deep freeze that happens up north. CC would be my choice in that circumstance.
Freezing rain is my worst weather problem and nothing I've tried helps at all with that. Several inches of ice just puts the whole line down.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 01:20 
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Amak wrote:
conibearcat wrote:
your right about books on animals, if told many a new trapper to study the animals you want,watch documentrys rean everything you can learn there habbits,food, mateing season and u will be a better trapper, but there are some good vidios out there and alot of bad ones like you said . A big money making sham. I could name a few but I wont



Thank you very much conicat, its nice to know im standing beside some folks instead of alone on this. :wink:


Didn't realize you were talking about video, Amak, thought you were talking about that biologist/lure maker that gives demos at our convention. I've only seen two videos, one had good info but was poorly produced, the other was just poor.
If you have a list of books that you recommend on animal behavior pm it to me , i don't keep up like I should.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 09:46 
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Well put tjm. Ive tried other protective measures but I went right back to wax and dye. Like you, peat is as good as I can find and freezing rain is about the only thing that puts me out of buisness. I do use CC because I have to and it works good. I hear all the time about how weather proof snares are.....well not in freezing rain. That puts them out of commissuon too, esp when im targeting bobcats that can seem slippery to get into a snare anyway. Ive seen even fairly recently them go right through several snares with ice on them. A coyote might pull hard enough to break the ice away but not a cat....they will just climb right through an 8 in loop. Acrobatic contortis is what they are.... so that along with jacking my footholds, is why i hate freezing rain so much.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 10:04 
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Yes.... im talking about video, dvd, books.....anything out there that starts glorifying the author and how great they are instead of teaching about the animal its self. Folks dont need to know what set types to use, what to call them, and pose as if everything they do is new and different. That info is everywhere on set types and they have been around for ages.. Instead the animal and its prey is what needs focused on......but then if thats done then there wouldnt be a flock of sheepeople lining their pockets. :evil: i cannot find trapping media of any type that dont also include a bunch of the authors personal views about some matter, that ends up giving the student the same view though its wrong, and though the student never experianced it themselves. Trapping info out there is full of it and i have not read or heard about a single instance that its not the same in. The only info that is good i can find are information about the animal its self and most have nothing to do with trapping.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 15:59 
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Trapping authors and video makers are very challenged to create a book or video large enough to market, imo. They must use a lot of filler because the truth be told set making and general locations can be well covered in one or two pages or maybe ten minutes of a well thought out video. Not marketable. Probably very few are expert enough in animal behavior to do more than a brief glimpse.
I know that having spent most of my life observing criters and their tracks and reading many studies I could not easily communicate my small knowledge to a person with no animal watching background.

We are a nation of sheep for sure. I have thought about how that happened, when I was a child there still quite a few rugged individualists around. Two contributing factors come to mind, millions of soldiers returning to society after years of unquestioning obedience and total dependency on the military at the end of WW2 and the New Deal policies that encouraged continued dependency. Each generation since being more willing to accept dependency and to look for some one else to lead. Leadership ain't easy.

It must take some one with a giant ego and very little regard for the intellect of others to presume that his video is of great value. The demo man I mentioned has several videos and a following, but I think he does more harm by his personal appearances at conventions.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 16:56 
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Doc, I wax and use CC, and a lot of it. When I pull traps I always throw them in the back of the truck and take them to the car wash and with hot water and soap I can usually get them to keep without rusting until I am ready to wax again.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 17:12 
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Thanks for all the advice guys !! 8)

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Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2015, 21:14 
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Good topic wolf I like it.My to cents we do use primarily dirt holes and blind sets early on in the season as our weather starts to change we get a lot of freeze and thaw so I move away from dirt holes and start using cubby sets and walk throughs and when its really rainy I use a lot of fir needles for bedding of my traps this works just fine for grey fox and cats not so good for coyotes but we don't target the coyotes here in the valley do to their low dollar all though we will take them if they end up in our sets on the damage control side when dealing with coyotes. I primarily run snares when fur trapping I try to stay away from snares just because of the low dollar we already bring for our furs and and the quality of the fur means more to me than the catch it self so there's my back words reasoning behind my thoughts but on the other hand my wife likes her dirt holes the cat she just took was in a Dirt hole under a log she primarily uses dirt holes I think because that is what she has had the most luck with she is just now stepping out of the box and trying different sets she is just now learning to read and understand the animals and that just finding tracks doesn't nessasarily mean that where she found the tracks is the best spot to put a set and some times studying the animals travel path will tell you what set is best to catch the critter PK

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