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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2014, 20:23 
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Ok so I set 6 110s today and I feel real good about them. But some spots are really deep. They are good runs but there 3-4 feet deep. How would you guys set these runs? Thanks in advance for any input!! :D


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2014, 21:21 
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I'd probably try a cage in the deep runs

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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2014, 22:01 
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Yeah that would be perfect but in PA we can't use colonies or cages in waterways :evil: :(


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 00:10 
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Just how youbare doing. Lower it down and stabilize it using those long 110 body grip stabilizers. You may have to even set it from a boat.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 00:52 
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We cant use colony traps here either much to our chagrin. If using 110's you can replace the open side rivet with a long bolt or eye bolt. Wire both sides to long poles and either set it as you wade to them or like was said use a boat. Ive done both. Its hard to maneuver the 110 once you approach or surpass 6' in depth but it can be done. Checking can be a pain. Unless the water is crystal clear. You can take a long willow pole and slide it down to the spring and tell by feel if its still set. Mind you on occasion you'll trip the set and have to pull it and reset it but thats how weve done it. You can also use baited 110's/210's etc around the runs but they arent near as effective obviously. Patience is a virtue with these sets. Ive also set big footholds right in the run too on a hair trigger and had success. Just tack or wire a small 8" square platform to a pole at a 90 degree. Just slide the foothold off into the run. Slowly probe with a longer pole to hit a jaw when checking. No. 1 1/2's, 2's even 3's and 4's work. Old beaver traps are good for this. Ive got some old Blake and lamb 2 1/2 SLS that on occasion still see action in sets like that. Sometimes I'll even bend the pan up above the jaws to give the rat a bigger target area and to try and keep'em from swimming over it. Further in the hole the better.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 11:47 
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Thanks for the advice!! I'm gonna set some more tonight! That's a good idea with the footholds Back!! I might try that. If I'm using 110s in the deep runs will they swim over top?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 15:23 
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I always try to put the 110 as far in the hole as i can. If the trap is too far out they may swim over it? Im sure the trap looks like sticks and twigs to a rat and some will just swim over it. Make sure the jaws of the trap have clearance from the sides/top of the run.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 22:01 
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I have set deep runs right on the bottom, under three foot of open water. Rats follow those runs until they peter out. Have also set 110s just under the ice where you could tell the ice was thin and caught rats over two to three foot of water. As long as the water is open, I'd set on the bottom.

REM


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 23:46 
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Well I got two today! I always set as close to the hole as possible so Im good there. Thanks for the responses guys!!


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2014, 00:48 
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Thats awesome.. Congrats. Hope you catch many more

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 13:19 
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RatTrapper wrote:
Thanks for the advice!! I'm gonna set some more tonight! That's a good idea with the footholds Back!! I might try that. If I'm using 110s in the deep runs will they swim over top?


They sure might, which is why you need them up close to the entrance which has been pointed out. Normally rats do follow runs, but if you have ever watched one using a run with an obstacle in its way, like a 3 inch branch or root, then you know they will come out of the run if they encounter a reason to do so. often they will go back into the run, if it's still going, once clear of the obstacle. You would not believe the number of rats I have caught by crowding one colony trap to one edge of the run, then placing on the inside back corner of the first colony and on the opposite edge a second one. Even though there was only a few inches between the channel which was sloping upward along the first trap, they went around it, and was caught in the second one in behind.It's likely because the first had a rat or more in it clogging up the entrance trying to escape. Happens all the time. If the channel is wide, place them traps side by side. I have also placed one in a narrow run directly behind the first by 18 inches or 2 ft, and even though the colony was centered, they were taken in the second one not the first one. If not over crowded, Rats nearly always try to escape and die on the end they entered from in colony traps, so I know they went around the first trap. ANYtime I am dealing with a deeper rat run, it's been a primary one....I always double up in some way and it pays big time with many more rats then you might imagine that otherwise would not have been.

One thing else you can do that was not mentioned yet. Wait for good ice, ( not too, thin not too thick) and use the under ice baited board set. In case you dont know what it is, it uses a small foothold trap, a proper length of 1x4, some wire, and a nail with the head cut off once it is driven. Im sure if you do an internet search on the baited board set you will find tons of info....very common and effective set for rats. A few key things. Board must be the right length to be able to push into the bottom at a slight angle so the bait rest just below the ice. The trap should be directly under the bait, as you want to target the rats front foot as he tries to pull the wired to the board bait (parsnip or carrot) off the board. This also works well if you don't know exactly where the den is, but know you are close. I have never NOT had rats oblige. A highly under-utilized but very deadly under ice set for rats.

On deep body grips and checking them...... There are 2 tricks those who are inclined to do so can do to make it easier. One is for under ice (which works for beaver too) and one for open water.

open water trap checking trick- use a quality heavy thread or craft string, and a small in-line float used for walleye fishing with shiner or worm harness rigging. They are shaped kind of like a caplet type pill being elongated only slightly bigger. Simply tie a good knot with the thread around the upper portion of BOTH jaws while trap is set, pull off enough thread to allow the tiny float to reach the surface when trap is placed, and tie the float on the other end so it cannot escape. When checking, if float is in position, trap is still set, but if it is gone or drifted too far off nearby the tread has been broken by the trap firing and you should investigate.

Under ice trap checking trick- This one takes a little more investment to do, but by the time you get a number of years from it and the time saved,,, you will agree it's well worth it. Besides, many of us has what is needed at home already. You will need light weight electric wire, maybe 16-18 ga. size, a tiny zip tie, and a Volt meter with continuity testing feature. Much the same as the first trick, take the light ga electric wire around the top and preferably upper corner of both trap jaws. Pre measure the distance needed to form a tight enough loop so the "circle" will get yanked apart upon firing, and place the little zip tie to hold them together and suck it down tight. Trim the excess off. Now Go around the jaws one time so the leads end up on top and twist them together 2x. Run the wires up your support pole that will exit your hole in the ice so the leads are easily accessible. Zip tie the wires to the/one of the support poles. Now place set trap like regular with support pole. An option if not using support pole is to just run the wires up through the hole, but be sure not to yank them or trap will move, and take precaution so wires do not go back down hole. Now when ice is formed back over the hole, the wires are up top and available, Just touch each lead end with the tester set on continuity. If the trap has fired there will be no reading because wires are pulled apart upon firing, and if it has not fired you will get a reading. I know it sounds like too much garb, but trust me when I say once its set up, the time spent readying this set up is well worth the time it saves in chopping or spudding through ice on a fridged day. Especially considering most of this set up can be done in the warmth of your garage or shop.

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 15:42 
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Thanks for the help Amak!! Will the baited board set work in open water because I have a few spots that it would be perfect for? I have my own method that I'm sure someone else has thought of to check open water sets. If it's shallow enough I take a weed and stick it through the chain. I stick it just far enough to stay. When the fires the chain moves and the weed floats away. It work pretty good for me but it doesn't work for deep sets and the thread idea sounds great!! As for ice I've never thought of any way but chopping through. Using wire sounds like it would really speed up checks.


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 16:14 
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Im not going to say never because its trapping....but typically the baited board set is an under ice set. Rats are much more likely to hit it with ice because they have a habit of swimming up and along ice. Without ice it might work but is quite a crap shoot if you connect or not..... Odds are against it. I find some of the very best rat sets are through the ice. I like good thickness of ice because it makes my life WAY easier....no waders or mud or getting stuck in the bottom, or being uncomfy the whole time, or stirring up the bottom so you cant see nothing....and on and on and on. Ice in the right thickness range means one heck of a run on rats for me.

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 16:23 
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Amak wrote:
getting stuck in the bottom,

I don't even have to say it, or should I? :lol: :P

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 16:24 
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Another name for the set is a leaning board set. In case you need visuals google images has good shots.




As for YOU Richard......... :? :lol:

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 21:24 
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Theres some awesome ideas there! Ive used baited pole sets, foothold and conibears in open water. Its not a killer set per se but if i cant find good sets along a steep bank or the runs are just too deep or no way to get a boat on the water(or boats arent allowed like several small municipal/park lakes we clean out) we'll make some up. But when we do we really gangset them. Ive set up one acre ponds with 30+ before. Kinda like saturation bombing, more ya put out better your changes of hitting(catching) your target.

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 02:23 
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That's alright I can wait for ice!! Baited sets are always more hit and miss than blind/trail sets.


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 11:44 
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Once you get ice, if it isnt covered with snow or if it isnt white like milk.... you dont have to put them leaning baited boards just in front of a den. Rats under ice take pretty specific routes while feeding and moving around under there. Over the course of several trips, they leave bubble trails that gets trapped under the ice in still waters. They exhale very slowly while in the water which creates the trapped bubbles. What you want to look for is lines of bubbles not groups alone. Often you can trace the line of bubbles to where other bubble lines come together and curve into either a den or feeding hot spot. Also there is often numerous bubble lines running right along each other making it look more like a path of bubble lines. Anywhere you find numerous bubble lines close together or coming together, set up a baited leaning board set. Beware that just masses of bubbles alone can be made by earth gasses or plant life gasses. Dont confuse them. Easy to tell the difference if you know that scenerio exist and watch for it.

On the set, about where you want the bait on the board, drill two 1/8-1/4 inch holes side by side about an inch apart. Then you can run a length of #16 tie wire through the holes from the trap side. Each lead end through its own hole. That forms a half loop on the bait side for which you can pull the bait tight up to the board and tie it down in place so the rat struggles to get it. If you have #1 long springs many have a hole already in the center or somewhere on the base plate.
Drive a sufficient sized nail at a slight upward angle (towards the top of board that will stick out of the ice when done) until roughly 1/4-3/8 inch is still undriven. Then use cutters and clip the head off the nail. Now you can hang your trap by putting it on the headless nail in the hole in the base plate, spring aiming straight down. Fasten the chain to the lower portion of the board with a fence staple. When driving the nail, try to make it so the trap jaws are up close to the bait. That way the pan is about 2-3 inches below the bait. Also I recommend parsnip over carrots but carrots will work. With parsnips they are more woody and tough so they stay better. Also one parsnip should be split and chunked to make 4-6 sets depending on size. I also prefer their whitish color for eye catching appeal.

Its pretty easy checking them. Since the trap is very close to the surface you can see if they are missing or still there in most cases.

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 13:20 
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Turnip work good too. Theyre cheaper around here if you dont grow any. Any light colored veggie works good. You can see it easier and its easier to tell if somethings amiss or ya got a rat. But sometimes they will freeze to the ice so i like my bait and trap just a hair deeper. Its all a personal thing. Try several ideas or parts of ideas and see what you prefer. Ive used plain chunks of wood and white painted wood chunks also experimenting. Results werent real good but it did work. Espescially with pole sets using 110's. If you use the pole sets in open water watch for ducks. Sometimes they'll go after the veggies. Probably why its best under the ice. Good thing about the set is any foothold will do and you dont have to buy specific traps. Ive used no.0 SLS to no.4 DLS and even toothless 14's and big no.4 jumps. Any of the bigger traps that are too weak for beaver or bigger critters are fine in this set. Soon as it snaps the rats doomed. Just a word of caution. Sometimes rats tend to stay toward cat tails etc under th ice and sometimes that ice isnt safe. Ive broke thru a few times, thankfully in shallower water. Have a plan just in case. If your vehicle is a long hike out plan ahead for that. Maybe even some fire starter etc. ice picks for climbin out. Ive even tied myself off to something on shore on ice i was leery of. That cold water is bad... Been in it too many times.

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 20:44 
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Turnips sound good for rats back........if I can keep from EATING them!!!! Lol! I love turnip. I do also like eating parsnip too though. I'll pick up turnip to try on rats next time...

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 22:59 
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Some of our foodplots have turnips and beets. Im always grabbin a few turnips about baseball size and eating them in the blind/stand, peelem, dash of salt(i love the little fast food packs). Just bring a drink, lol, ready made meal. I was at our wallys earlier, they had about 8 or 9 beat up parsnips in a bin, about .90 each is what they figured out to be. I lik'em roasted with a little butter, salt n garlic. Cant growem worth a dang around here. Little too far north maybe?

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2014, 17:26 
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Hmm, I'm gonna have to try and find a spot to try this leaning board set this winter, only got two months till end of rat season though 8)

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2014, 22:23 
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I have a couple spots that the board set might work!! There are a couple spot where the ice is real dark and it almost looks thinner. They look like a trail under ice? Is this rats causing it or something else??


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2014, 23:53 
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Rat id guess muskrat but without seeing it ? Beaver will wear a groove in the bottom of the ice too sometimes but its usually a little wider then what Amak is talking about i think? I have seen a big round collection of bubbles and while it could be anything several times ive chopped thru there and found an active rat den. There no hard set rules with that portion of trapping. Furs gonna move across the Midwest tonight. We just finished setting more out, not easy by flashlight but ya do what ya gotta do. Hope your am run is a doozie! I seen quite a few coons on the way back to town. Of course in spots i cant trap lol.. Forgot to add.. Heres another quick set if you have steep banks, little sign and open water, we call those ponds toilet bowls. Just take your boot and slick up a "trench" straight up and down from the water till the edge of the bank or 2' or so feet. Mimicks a rat slide. Dip a stick in your favorite lure and stick it in the trench about 1' up. Set your trap at the bottom in 2"-4" of water. Ive even taken a few sticks and made a quick shelf. Takes longer to type it then to make it. I have to use a shovel from the top right now to make ours but if we have the open water and those ponds available we always set some of these.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 09:56 
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RatTrapper wrote:
I have a couple spots that the board set might work!! There are a couple spot where the ice is real dark and it almost looks thinner. They look like a trail under ice? Is this rats causing it or something else??


Are there bubbles rat? In virtually every case of rat (or like back said beavers too, and for reference otters as well. I suspect mink will too but dont know)) movement that is a reliable place to chop through and set, the bubbles are the key and a dead give away. Many times i see through the ice and can notice rat runs. I personally will not waste my time and work unless bubbles are present. Been there....done that. Sometimes rats will use a den or run when ice is forming and they keep the "chute" of the run open longer and everything freezes around it. Then eventually it freezes and looks different. Rats move around a lot. They may have a half dozen dens and connecting runs they may choose from and will stay through short periods in any one of them. If the bubbles are not present its likely they are nearby at another den location. Keep an eye on it as you trap and they may well flee or move to it and begin using it again....which will then show bubbles.

If you want to see someone that literally catches tons and tons of rats with a leaning baited board, Gary Schuman (sp?) will knock your socks off. He has some great media out, and catches thousands of rats. He is an interesting fellow to boot!

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