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 Post subject: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 09:13 
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PA guys or anyone else ever heard of this guy?? Obviously he does this full time in the fall, has lots and lots of permission for private land, and has many, many sets out. Still, WoW!! Pretty impressive. Only in my wildest dreams...

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthre ... /4744759/1

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 10:03 
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Psb, yeah he's good. Seen last year he caught 1500 reds. Dude catches a lot that's for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 12:42 
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I'm sure the guy is an artisan extraordinaire when it comes to setting for fox. But it would be interesting to know some other data that completes the picture such as:

1. Is he a full time trapper during this peaking trapping time?

2. How many different parcels of ground is he setting and how many indivdual land owner permissions does that require?

3. Correlated with above, how long is his line?

4. How many sets is he running?

I'm not saying I could produce such fox numbers (I know I couldn't do it anymore in e. SD because of all the coyotes around) but fill in the blanks above and I'm sure there could be a lot of fur piled up by a good number of trappers. Let's just fill in some blanks with some hypotheticals:

Yes, he does this full time for 6 weeks during Nov. and the first half of Dec. He has 50 different parcels (4 sets each) requiring 35 different permissions. His line is 200 miles long to complete from and to his residence and he's running 200 sets.

Does the perspective change on that big pile of reddies??

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 12:43 
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P.S. Russ, you said you have a new job. Does that mean your done with school, taking a break, or what? If done with school, congrats!!! I know there's been a lot of hard work involved :)

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 12:49 
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Phil did an interview in Trappers Post. His secret is he has lots of help, but he also works his butt off! He starts his run at something like 3 in the morning so he can get home in the afternoon and have time to finish skinning his catch by midnight. The interviewer rode along for a couple days and said it was the hardest he has ever worked, something to that effect. My understanding is Phil only uses step down sets.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 13:03 
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Big catches like that are impressive to a lot of trappers. I will say what impresses me is the amount of work and bodily torture someone like that puts themselves through. Once you can catch your target at will, the only difference between big numbers and smaller numbers is number of traps, area expansion, etc.....everything involved just gets bigger and more of the same. The main difference is planning and hours of work. Large numbers do not equate a better trapper that knows more then a small guy down the road that hits his targets consistently. Big numbers = a large amount of time and work...the rest is the same as a sucsessful small timer. Anyone in this game for any amount of time knows these facts well.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 14:40 
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No intent to besmirch his work ethic or the amount of effort he does. I know my fat a** middle age body couldn't keep up those kind of hours (don't know if I could have done that in my 20s even). I don't think I could ever get in, maintain, and keep up with skinning on that sort of intensity. I hope its still fun to him and not just work...

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 17:51 
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Naaa. I didn't think you meant that about his work or effort R. My point is a different one. Many guys get confused on what it means and what it takes to land big numbers,,,,, and being a "superb and far above the consistent small time trapper" trapper, is not one of the ingredients. Im not a big numbers guy, but i have caught enough numbers to know what it takes. All a person needs as far as the actual trapping portion, is to be able to catch his target with one or two simple set types. Nothing magic or mysterious or special about it. But, I get deeply disturbed when I see big numbers guys being worshiped by folks as if they are something special as if they are God Himself. Yes, They put in more hard work and planning and investments and I commend them for that....but thats the only things really separating them from a small numbers guy that can connect consistently. Being able to connect on the target animal is being able to connect on the target animal. So why is the big numbers guys so often held up as a 'better' trapper than the consistent small numbers guy? What disturbs me the most is even knowing that above said is true, many of the big numbers guys use their numbers as clout and point to the same, and work to get people to believe they are a cut above everyone else. That is because so many (not all) want something more then the fur...... either the pride trip of being worshiped, which is the WORST case (they should get on their knees and beg forgiveness), or they want and need a following of "fans" so there is a steady inflow of money that comes from their products and investment in a buisness,,,,,you know, so and so's prize secret lures or DVDs or instructionals on the "magic" formula and tactics that will put 1000 __________ (fill in the blank with any type fur animal) on your boards.....all because the fans are made to believe that THEIR way/products is are something different or special.. and that you NEED to spend that money in order to get xxxxxx amount of fur..... all done on purpose for personal gain. Unfortunately there are many guys out there deliberately drawing fans through their numbers, only to get at their money or to puff themselves up. I know it's just business, and people have a choice and a mind of their own. But the disturbing part to me, is people don't seem to catch on to it, and continue to talk about how great trapper so and so must be as a trapper, because he takes 200 bobcats or 500 coyotes. Trust me when I say the very best trappers out there that know the most intimate details of their quarry are very often small time trappers. I know of a few right here on this site. Numbers do not impress me anymore, except for the fact of the hard work it takes, but most huge number trappers have a number of "helpers" (basic employees) to get them through it.

As far as hoping he has fun.....I think that went out the window once he decided to go big on reds. Think of a Garden. Fun right? Now lets increase the same type garden by 200X. Same movements, lots more of it, and monotonous. I'm pretty sure the only time he grins is for the camera tailgate shots, and when he is cashing his check. Work now, play later. That's the reality of going big. There is always something lost when you gain something....and when one thing is changed, many things will change as a result, even if unknown reactions and changes are not thought of beforehand.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 18:31 
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Amak my brother, nobody could have said that better! Fun? That's out the window. Nothing but work at the highest level. I believe we are talking about Phil Brown? Amak is right, just a couple of sets that they use and have it perfected with speed and they keep it simple. I also believe that there is plenty of off season work involved with it also. Like getting your presets dug and ready and that's where the speed comes to play when season arrives. It's all run and gun. Trapping out of the truck window. They don't walk to nothing. That eats up time. Most of them don't even carry a shovel. It's drill and augers. My drill and auger has spoiled me. They don't play around with the hard to catch dogs. It's all about the pups of the year and that's where the money is. That's the same with the yotes as I have learned. But I have also learned how to catch them hard ones when they give me trouble. The young ones also have the better pelts and bring more money. The bottom line is it is all about your MINDSET. Some have it and some don't. I wish I still had that mindset like I once did. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 19:19 
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NonPCfed wrote:
P.S. Russ, you said you have a new job. Does that mean your done with school, taking a break, or what? If done with school, congrats!!! I know there's been a lot of hard work involved :)



Not done with school but I am graduating this December, only one class this semester, so I am working part-time.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 22:18 
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Amak, I still think you should write a book (or someone on WAT should) that’s just as much about the philosophy of trapping as it is with info about sets, lures, etc.

So, isn’t this really just basically the American way (perhaps a bit on the darker side)? “Success” and eventually celebrity is what a lot of people seek? Tom Miranda either knew going in or soon thereafter that being an extension trapper in SD wasn’t going to get him the big bucks (personally, I think it was just a resume builder and a chance to make trapping videos in a different geography than his home state of Ohio). I don’t hold it against Miranda his success and he’s far wealthier (at least in money) than I’ll ever be and if getting asked for his autograph and slapped on the back because he’s such an outdoor stud and people can live vicariously through him while sitting on their couch, hey, more power to him. Just not my goal even if I was really good at trapping or hunting or sky diving or whatever. Don’t get me wrong, I think it takes an exceptional person who truly doesn’t want to get their ego stroked once a while for what they do but I certainly don’t quest celebrity or even wealth that such notoriety can bring.

I had never heard about Phil Brown or most big time trappers before seeing that post on Tman because I seldom buy any trapping videos (never seem to have the free play cash to justify spending $25-40 bucks on one). I was intrigued about the title of his post “One guy, one truck, 24/check” and decided to check it out. It turns out that this guy does work incredibly hard but to quote Transformers, “there’s more to meet the eye” than just the title of his post. OK, he pre makes the start of his sets. No problem, I know of a couple Kansans and a guy from Ontario that pre-build sets or position equipment. That’s just smart. OK, then we find out that the main sets are being made with power tools instead of a spade and dirt chipper. Alright, not my style but again if you’re a “go big or go home” type of guy that may be an adrenalin junkie by being able to go 20 hours a day weeks on end with numbers of critters just flying by, that’s a personal choice. But what is it in the end but industrial trapping? Maybe his style and goal but not mine.

I suspect, as you said earlier, that the real goal of big time celebrity trappers is not the fur check but 1) the glory and 2) the means to an end of making more money through videos, lures, gear, whatever else that celebrity can bring. Here’s a point, let’s say after all costs are tallied (I’m sure his fox line burns a lot of fuel driving around across all those fields checking traps) he clears $15 a fox year in, year out (maybe its double that but for easy math, let’s stay with $15). With 1,500 fox that’s $22,500 for the season. Good pay for a couple of months but certainly not a typical yearly salary (probably not a lot per hour for all the time he puts in during the season). So, that’s when all the extra “goodies” of celebrity come in and that’s where the real money is found if a guy can reach that level. If that’s a person’s ultimate goal…

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Genesis 1:26


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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 07:20 
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Id say that is actually quite the perfect take on it R. Well stated.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 14:16 
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Amak hit it right on the nose. Long lining successfully takes a lot of physical work and planning. As for the after affects of long lining my body is a prime example. Ive known trappers that put up big numbers but in reality if they had to downsize and do it like a "hobby" trapper they would be marginally successful at best.

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 18:40 
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So what would you guys call a guy like me .... who has a short line as a hobby, been trapping for years , and still lucky to catch my butt with both hands ? :shock: :?
Trappintime, you are not allowed to answer this question ! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 20:01 
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doc9013 wrote:
So what would you guys call a guy like me .... who has a short line as a hobby, been trapping for years , and still lucky to catch my butt with both hands ? :shock: :?
Trappintime, you are not allowed to answer this question ! :mrgreen:



We call em one of two things depending on how few of critters is caught. Either "the trappers with brand new 20 year old sharpening stones"...or then there is just "doc9013". :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kiddin doc....you can catch anything you take a notion to, but esp if it has a twist top! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: fox guy
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 20:39 
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Amak wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
So what would you guys call a guy like me .... who has a short line as a hobby, been trapping for years , and still lucky to catch my butt with both hands ? :shock: :?
Trappintime, you are not allowed to answer this question ! :mrgreen:



We call em one of two things depending on how few of critters is caught. Either "the trappers with brand new 20 year old sharpening stones"...or then there is just "doc9013". :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kiddin doc....you can catch anything you take a notion to, but esp if it has a twist top! :wink:


Those twist tops have probably saved a lot of critters lives here over the years. :lol: :lol: :( :(

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"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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