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 Post subject: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 17:10 
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THE LAST WORD
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Joined: 14 Mar 2008, 20:20
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Location: west virginia
I agree with this . . .
« on: Yesterday at 11:05:46 PM »

" "Hands" Handley is a well-respected USAF fighter pilot.
Here is his short resume of accomplishments.

Colonel Phil "Hands" Handley is credited with the highest
speed air- to-air gun kill in the history of aerial combat. He flew
operationally for all but 11 months of a 26-year career, in aircraft
such as the F-86 Sabre, F-15 Eagle, and the C-130A Hercules.
Additionally, he flew 275 combat missions during two tours in
Southeast Asia in the F- 4D and F-4E. His awards include 21 Air
Medals, 3 Distinguished Flying Crosses, and the Silver Star.


Here is what Col. Handley wrote in response to Panetta and
Dempsey's claims there was no time to send help to Benghazi .

Betrayal in Benghazi

Phil "Hands" Handley Colonel, USAF (Ret.)

The combat code of the US Military is that we don't
abandon our dead or wounded on the battlefield. In US Air Force
lingo, fighter pilots don't run off and leave their wingmen. If one
of our own is shot down, still alive and not yet in enemy captivity,
we will either come to get him or die trying.

Among America 's fighting forces, the calm, sure knowledge
that such an irrevocable bond exists is priceless. Along with
individual faith and personal grit, it is a sacred trust that has
often sustained hope in the face of terribly long odds.

The disgraceful abandonment of our Ambassador and those
brave ex-SEALs who fought to their deaths to save others in that
compound is nothing short of dereliction-of-duty.

Additionally, the patently absurd cover-up scenario that
was fabricated in the aftermath was an outright lie in an attempt to
shield the President and the Secretary of State from responsibility.

It has been over eight months since the attack on our
compound in Benghazi . The White House strategy, with the aid of a
"lap dog" press has been to run out the clock before the truth is
forthcoming.

The recent testimonies of the three "whistle blowers"
have reopened the subject and hopefully will lead to exposure and
disgrace of those responsible for this embarrassing debacle. It would
appear that the most recent firewall which the Administration is
counting on is the contention "that there were simply no military
assets that could be brought to bear in time to make a difference"
mainly due to the unavailability of tanker support for fighter
aircraft.

This is simply BS, regardless how many supposed "experts"
the Administration trot out to make such an assertion.

The bottom line is that even if the closest asset capable
of response was half-way around the world, you don't just sit on your
penguin *** and do nothing.

The fact is that the closest asset was not half-way around
the world, but as near as Aviano Air Base , Italy where two squadrons
of F-16Cs are based.

Consider the following scenario (all times Benghazi
local): When Hicks in Tripoli receives a call at 9:40 PM from
Ambassador Stevens informing him "Greg, we are under attack!" (his
last words), Hicks immediately notifies all agencies and prepares for
the immediate initiation of an existing "Emergency Response Plan."

At AFRICON, General Carter Ham attempts to mount a rescue
effort, but is told to "stand down". By 10:30 PM an unarmed drone is
overhead the compound and streaming live feed to various "Command and
Control Agencies" so everyone watching that feed knew darn well what
was going on.

At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli ,
arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold
off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are
killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM.

So nothing could have been done, eh? Nonsense. If one
assumes that tanker support really "was not available" what about
this:

When at 10:00 PM AFRICON alerts the 31st TFW Command Post
in Aviano Air Base , Italy of the attack, the Wing Commander orders
preparation for the launch of two F-16s and advises the Command Post
at NAS Sigonella to prepare for hot pit refueling and quick turn of
the jets.

By 11:30 PM, two F-16Cs with drop tanks and each armed
with five hundred 20 MM rounds are airborne. Flying at 0.92 mach they
will cover the 522 nautical miles directly to NAS Sigonella in 1.08
hours. While in-route, the flight lead is informed of the tactical
situation, rules of engagement, and radio frequencies to use.

The jets depart Sigonella at 1:10 AM with full fuel load
and cover the 377 nautical miles directly to Benghazi in 0.8 hours,
arriving at 1:50 AM which would be 20 minutes after the arrival of
Woods, Doherty and their team.

Providing that the two F-16s initial pass over the mob, in
full afterburner at 200 feet and 550 knots did not stop the attack in
its tracks, a few well placed strafing runs on targets of opportunity
would assuredly do the trick.
Were the F-16s fuel state insufficient to return to
Sigonelli after jettisoning their external drop tanks, they could
easily do so at Tripoli International Airport , only one-half hour
away.

As for those hand-wringing naysayers who would worry about
IFR clearances, border crossing authority, collateral damage, landing
rights, political correctness and dozens of other reasons not to act
-- screw them. It is time our "leadership" get its priorities
straight and put America 's interests first.


The end result would be that Woods and Doherty would be
alive. Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with "72
virgins" and a clear message would have been sent to the next
worthless POS terrorist contemplating an attack on Americans that it
is not really a good idea to "tug" on Superman's cape.

Of course all this depends upon a Commander In Chief more
concerned with saving the lives of those he put in harm's way than
getting his crew rested for a campaign fund raising event in Las
Vegas the next day. It also depends upon a Secretary of State who
actually understood "What difference did it make?", and a Secretary
of Defense who was watching the feed from the drone and understood
what the attack consisted of instead of making an immediate response
that "One of the military tenants is that you don't commit assets
until you fully understand the tactical situation."

YGBSM!

Ultimately it comes down to the question of who gave that
order to stand down? Whoever that coward turns out to be should be
exposed, removed from office, and face criminal charges for
dereliction of duty. The combat forces of the Untied States of
America deserve leadership that really does "have their back" when
the chips are down.



FOR THOSE OF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO READ
THIS, DO ONE THING FOR ME AND FORWARD IT TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!! TO
AVOID THIS HAPPENING AGAIN, WHOMEVER GAVE THE "STAND DOWN" ORDER
NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED!!!!"

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 17:33 
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[quote="doc9013 Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with "72
virgins" [/quote]

And quite possibly hundreds of innocent people as well. I'm not sure how killing hundreds to save a few who maybe shouldn't be there in the first place can solve anything. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 17:40 
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Great post doc, thanks for sharing it, I'll copy and paste it and pass it on.

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 18:06 
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Thanks doc for posting a well stated article by Colonel Phil "Hands" Handley. Regardless of our Canuke friend (I am starting to think he may be a pacifist :? ) thinks about who should be where. I reckon I am old school, I went to the ARMY when I was DRAFTED and did not run to Canada to show my disloyalty to the USA. I did not care to go to the ARMY but felt it was my DUTY and did so....that maybe why some of our men and women are in harms way, doing what our Gov't has instructed them to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 18:56 
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THE LAST WORD
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Location: west virginia
trappintime wrote:
[quote="doc9013 Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with "72
virgins"


And quite possibly hundreds of innocent people as well. I'm not sure how killing hundreds to save a few who maybe shouldn't be there in the first place can solve anything. :?[/quote]


We could argue until doomsday about whether or not we should be there, or anywhere else in the middle east for that matter. Personally , I wish all our troops could come home and let those towel heads kill each other all they want. But this isn't about whether we should be there or not.

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this. Those brave men were " deserted " by their commander -in-chief. Hung out there to die. It isn't right, and those who issued the stand-down orders should be punished.

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 19:58 
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doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:10 
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THE LAST WORD
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Joined: 14 Mar 2008, 20:20
Posts: 11647
Location: west virginia
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.



I doubt seriously there were any women and children standing around that consulate while that fight was going on, and as far as escalating hostilities, how could it get much worse than 4 dead men ?!! :shock: :shock:

Good thing my finger isn't on the red button, or our nuclear arsenal would be reduced very quickly. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:16 
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It ain't about causing casualties, those people were there attacking our embassy because that's what they wanted to do.An outright declaration of war in and of itself (attacking any embassy). There are embassies from several countries in any one country, so we had every right to be there since we had an agreement with the Libyan government. Every embassy is considered an extension of the country it comes from, so it is a sovereign state where it is located. So, those people attacking our embassy and the annex wouldn't have been casualties, they were enemies. First and foremost priority, should have been getting our own people out of there, which there was plenty of time to do. Our leaders chose otherwise, which is a disgrace. Maybe you'd think differently if it was one of your friends, someone you knew or family members that were beaten to death, raped multiple times while alive and dead, and drug through the streets like a prize. Then to only find out that they could have easily been saved, just from a simple order to go get them from the same people that signed the death warrant of these 4 U.S. citizens. Because that is what happened to our people.

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:23 
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doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.



I doubt seriously there were any women and children standing around that consulate while that fight was going on, and as far as escalating hostilities, how could it get much worse than 4 dead men ?!! :shock: :shock:

Good thing my finger isn't on the red button, or our nuclear arsenal would be reduced very quickly. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


x2!! Doc for President!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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A FOOL NEVER SEES THE ONE HE MAKES. (Harold Warp)


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:32 
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Richard Murray wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.



I doubt seriously there were any women and children standing around that consulate while that fight was going on, and as far as escalating hostilities, how could it get much worse than 4 dead men ?!! :shock: :shock:

Good thing my finger isn't on the red button, or our nuclear arsenal would be reduced very quickly. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


x2!! Doc for President!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The last war that the USA fought to WIN was WWII...you can't win by worrying about collateral damages...you fight to be the WINNER at ALL COST. If you don't go into battle to win, stay out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:49 
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THE LAST WORD
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Swamp Rat wrote:
Richard Murray wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.



I doubt seriously there were any women and children standing around that consulate while that fight was going on, and as far as escalating hostilities, how could it get much worse than 4 dead men ?!! :shock: :shock:

Good thing my finger isn't on the red button, or our nuclear arsenal would be reduced very quickly. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


x2!! Doc for President!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The last war that the USA fought to WIN was WWII...you can't win by worrying about collateral damages...you fight to be the WINNER at ALL COST. If you don't go into battle to win, stay out of it.



Amen Swamp. Neither Bush or Obummer have fought to win. Rules of engagement have killed more of our troops than the enemy. If you aren't going to fight to win, might as well come home.

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 20:59 
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Boy did you open a can of worms Doc... :roll:

But yes, people need to be held accountable for instructing people to do nothing while our own people were under attack.

That's the same as somebody calling 911 when somebody is breaking into their house at night, and the police going "Oh well, we wouldn't get there in time, so we decided not to do anything. What does it matter?" And then nobody faces any consequences when the family in that house is murdered by the robber.

Regardless of the circumstances that resulted in our people being there, the fact of the matter is that they were doing their job by being there. You don't order people to go somewhere, then when they are attacked for following orders, you abandon them!

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 21:02 
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doc9013 wrote:
Swamp Rat wrote:
Richard Murray wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:

When our soldiers go to whereever they are ordered to go, they should expect that their commanders and fellow soldiers will do anything and everything possible to come to their aid in situations like this.


Does everything possible include nuclear attack? I'm just saying that an F16 attack on the crowd would probably get far more innocent people than the ones guilty of fighting for what they believe in. So would that not escalate hostility's just a mite? Which in turn makes for more casualty's.



I doubt seriously there were any women and children standing around that consulate while that fight was going on, and as far as escalating hostilities, how could it get much worse than 4 dead men ?!! :shock: :shock:

Good thing my finger isn't on the red button, or our nuclear arsenal would be reduced very quickly. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


x2!! Doc for President!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The last war that the USA fought to WIN was WWII...you can't win by worrying about collateral damages...you fight to be the WINNER at ALL COST. If you don't go into battle to win, stay out of it.



Amen Swamp. Neither Bush or Obummer have fought to win. Rules of engagement have killed more of our troops than the enemy. If you aren't going to fight to win, might as well come home.


Very well said guys :!: I couldn't agree more :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2013, 22:22 
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You guys do know that I agree with 99.9% of your sentiments, eh.
Cat if my people were dumb enough to put themselves in that much danger then I guess I'd feel bad they were gone but I wouldn't nuke the whole country cause chances are there might be more of my people there.
Governments are playing games with live pawns and that is a very bad plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2013, 07:06 
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First and foremost there is a whole lot more to think about with a nuke than just pushing the red button, and I think we all know that. I'm pretty sure that comment was a little on the sarcastic side and you know that. Second, its not dumb for our people to have been there whatsoever. The US owns that ground the embassy and annex sets on. It's no different than an embassy in any other country. They were there doing their job as given to them by the federal government on US soil. They had every right to be there doing what they were doing. So the 'issue' you keep bringing up if they should have been there or not is a mute argument, of course they were suppose to be there. Just like our ambassadors to Israel, turkey, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, France, Britain, and Canada are all suppose to be there too. No difference. The true issue, is that our federal government had ample time, opportunity, and resources to go in and get those people out. They didn't. Then they proceeded to try and cover it all up with multiple lies and the American people are finding out more and more of these lies. And its ticking all of us US people off. Those four men didn't have to die that day, they could be sitting at home talking to their parents, or their now widowed wives, or their fatherless children. But out federal government decided it would be too busy sitting on their thumbs playing poker that night, preparing for a speech in las Vegas the next day, and just watched as the whole attack happened instead of saving those four Americans. That is the issue

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2013, 08:22 
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Since WW11 the media has played a major role in reporting to the world what happens in those war zones. Which intern creates problems for government involved in war. Not wanting to look like the bad guy they then add restrictions to their forces which in my opinion take away most chances for a victory. Just wonder what would have been the out come in Viet- Nam if there had been no restrictions such as no fly zones or don't attack the North. I agree they should have sent in the fighters even if they could not save them it would have been a show of force as to say mess with our embassy you will suffer the consequences. Just my thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2013, 23:17 
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trappinetime- Ever seen the movie Blackhawk Down?? In the end, they weren't fighting for the good old USA but for their brother-in-arms. They weren't willing to do and die for what the Prez was saying back in DC but getting their buds out of a bad jam.

Personally, I'd withdrawl all US forces from wherever and put constant eyes on the assorted bad guys and when they try to something big, grease 'em from space and the air. Screw what else gets blown up. We've been trying to win the "hearts and minds" of the developing world for 70 years and what has it gotten us?? Of course the Left will say we've been ripping off the developing world all that time as well, and there's a certain amount of truth in that because we do have out our own interest in mind. But for as "ugly" as "ugly America" has been, there's a lot of people alive in the developing world today that wouldn't be without the West (mostly US) supplying knowledge, just to name a few, in the form of medicines, clean drinking water technology, cheap (or even free) basic foodstuffs--there's been a lot of US grain given away to feed a whole lot of people for 50+ years. I struggle with my desire to spread the Gospel to them at the individual human scale and the larger scale that some of their societies have been so twisted and continued to be twisted (hacking each other to bits with machetes on a regular basis because their from a different tribe or sodomizing little boys and their donkeys because their "rules" say they can or whatever), that I don't even know if its worth it.

So, if I could pull US boys and girls back from all the sh**** places they are now, withdraw from the world oil market and only use US and Canada produced fuels, and tell China to go off themselves with their cheaply made crappy consumer goods made by people make a couple bucks a day if they're lucky, I would do it. There would be some uncomfortable readjustments to make here as our food, fuel, and other products would go up in costs but it probably would be worth it in the end.

But, that's not going to happen. Sooner or later, these losers are going to smuggle in a nuke or a nasty chemcial bomb, or blow a whole bunch of jets out of the air using manpads (the main reason why Stevens was in Benghazi) and it will make 9/11 look like a walk in the park. Then, a real decision will have to be made, and it won't be rosy.

Then again, by the time that happens, I believe a good number of WAT members probably won't be here anymore, and it will be out of man's control anyway. I guess we'll see what happens...

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 06:43 
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NonPCfed wrote:
trappinetime- Ever seen the movie Blackhawk Down??


Nope. :D Ever heard of Ken Taylor?


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 06:57 
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No, haven't heard of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 07:03 
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He never fired a shot. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 16:27 
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trappintime wrote:
He never fired a shot. :wink:



Gun jammed ? :--? :--o :shock:

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"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 17:40 
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doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
He never fired a shot. :wink:



Gun jammed ? :--? :--o :shock:


He is Canadian and don't need a gun. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 19:07 
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THE LAST WORD
THE LAST WORD

Joined: 14 Mar 2008, 20:20
Posts: 11647
Location: west virginia
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
He never fired a shot. :wink:



Gun jammed ? :--? :--o :shock:


He is Canadian and don't need a gun. :roll:


I forgot you guys still use spears and blowguns. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 20:38 
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POST-JACKING AND PIXEL SIZE CZAR (P.J.A.P.S.C.)
POST-JACKING AND PIXEL SIZE CZAR (P.J.A.P.S.C.)

Joined: 25 Dec 2007, 23:33
Posts: 11245
Location: Alberta, Canada
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
He never fired a shot. :wink:



Gun jammed ? :--? :--o :shock:


He is Canadian and don't need a gun. :roll:


I forgot you guys still use spears and blowguns. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:


I have now set into motion a weapon so fearful that once it cross's the border you will be quaking in your boots. :shock: Just to prove a point of course :wink: .


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 Post subject: Re: Benghazi
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 22:11 
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THE LAST WORD
THE LAST WORD

Joined: 14 Mar 2008, 20:20
Posts: 11647
Location: west virginia
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
doc9013 wrote:
trappintime wrote:
He never fired a shot. :wink:



Gun jammed ? :--? :--o :shock:


He is Canadian and don't need a gun. :roll:


I forgot you guys still use spears and blowguns. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:


I have now set into motion a weapon so fearful that once it cross's the border you will be quaking in your boots. :shock: Just to prove a point of course :wink: .


What the L , The only thing that scares me is if Obammy went to Canada and you're sending him back. :--o :--o :--o :evil: :evil:

_________________
Those who trade liberty for security shall have neither.

"Take ye heed,watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is".

Rev. 6:8 and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death , and Hell followed with him.


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